There are several places around the world that locals believe are a door to hell. Endless catacombs beneath the city of Paris, France for example or Dimmuborgir lava formations in Iceland. When it comes to sheer jaw-dropping effect, however, The Door to Hell by Darvaza in Turkmenistan takes the cake. I would also classify Darvaza as one of the places that should be on the must-visit list of every serious explorer who likes to visit Earth’s most breath-taking sites. Darvaza is a gas crater the burning gates of which have been flaming for upwards of 37 years.
Darvaza Burning Gas Crater
Turkmenistan is very rich in natural resources. Currently a sovereign country, Turkmenistan was part of the Soviet Union until 1991. It was during rule of Soviet Russia, back in 1971 when geologists were conducting gas drilling in Kara-Kum desert and discovered an underground chamber close to the village of Darvaza (known in Turkmen as Derweze, but sometimes also referred to as Darvaz). The discovery of the chamber was accidental and resulted in drilling rig collapsing, leaving giant gas crater filled with poisonous gases exposed to the world outside. The concentration of gases within the crater was high so nobody dared to go down there. It was then when someone came with an idea to light the gas in the crater on fire so as to burn it before the poisonous fumes engulf the nearby town of Darvaza.
The geologists thought the idea of burning the gas was smart and went ahead with lighting the crater on fire. As it turns out, the supply of quality natural gas below the crater is near infinite as the crater’s been burning since. At the time of this post, on June of 2009 the gas crater in Darvaza is still burning and has been since 1971 without interruption. No one can even imagine how much quality natural gas was burnt throughout the 38 years of the crater being on fire. No one can estimate how much more gas there still is. When they first lit the gas crater on fire, they thought the fire would go out after a few days. It’s been more than a few day, it’s been more than a few weeks or months. It’s been decades and the gas crater is burning just as it did the day it was first lit. Putting all economical loses from wasted natural gas aside, imagine the ecological impact this burning gas has cause during decades of non stop burning!
The Door to Hell
The locals from Darvaza have given the burning crater a name that suits it well – The Door to Hell. And everyone who visits Darvaza agrees with the name and finds it appropriate. When you look inside the burning gas crater, you do feel like this is what the door to hell would look like. No one dared to enter the chamber when it was first discovered and no one has dared there since. After all, everyone knows what kind of path a door o hell takes you. And it’s not the path anyone would voluntarily want to embark on. Seeing the door to hell with your own eyes, however is an experience like no other. You will have long stayed in awe after experiencing the viciousness of the fire within the gorge of the burning crater. The Door to Hell would be an amazing vacation experience for the adventurous wonderers. This is a vacation idea that your mainstream tour operators don’t know about. And that’s the beauty of it.
Darvaza Location
Darvaza is located in Turkmenistan but many sources mistakenly mention that it’s located in Uzbekistan. Uzbekistan is a country next to Turkmenistan and Darvaza is definitely not located there. Which is a good thing as there have been travel warnings for Uzbekistan for a long time, urging all travelers to avoid the country due to high risks of terrorist attacks and/or civil disturbances. But Uzbekistan is not where Darvaza is.
Darvaza and the burning gas crater are located in the central area of Turkmenistan, about 260 km north of Turkmenistan’s capital city Ashgabat. Check out the location of Darvaza on the interactive map below:
Is Turkmenistan Safe to Travel to?
Turkmenistan is located in the Middle East (Central Asia) and is surrounded by countries such as Afghanistan or Iran, which are known for frequent terrorist attacks, war, kidnapping and other crime against tourists. Despite proximities to war zones, the US Bureau of Consular Affairs has no warnings for Turkmenistan at this time, other than a recommendation to exercise normal degree of caution and keep aware of your surroundings at all times. For US Department of State Travel Website with more info and more up to date travel warnings, click HERE.
Canadian Foreign Affairs and International Trade Office however warns that tourists to Turkmenistan should exercise HIGH degree of caution based on sporadic clashes that occurred in September of 2008 in the outskirts of Ashgabat in the northern district of Khitrovka. For Canadian Foreign Affairs and International Trade Website with more info on Turkmenistan and more up to date travel warning, click HERE.
Despite its proximity to war zones and a violent clash from a year ago (which country hasn’t had one like that) Turkmenistan seems like a reasonably safe country to travel to at this time. Unless situation changes dramatically, the regions around Darvaza appear safe and friendly. A tourist should however always remain cautious and don’t needlessly attract attention on to themselves. Don’t show off and don’t walk desolate streets alone at night. Just general personal safety advice that should be in place no matter where you’re travelling to.
The Door to Hell Video
Darvaza The Burning Gas Hole Photo Gallery
Photo Source: English Russia
David dear,
It is obvious that you have nothing better to do with your time. If my ‘conclusions’ in this ever so highly scientific debate you are perpetuating are wrong- prove it, post some scientific ‘evidence’ which proves me wrong… you cannot because all you know how to do is regurgitate the crap the media spouts off… go back to hugging the trees, protesting, and watching CNN for your knowledge, it’s the best you are ever gonna get. ask your mom to fix you a TV dinner so you can continue your diatribe.
If you are really up for a challenge there are some moderately accurate shows on the Science channel and Discovery but watch out for the comercials in between…
Hello Dylan,
* “The point in engaging a contrarian is to provide the silent majority of people participating in this experience with the assurance that there are serious answers, and rational discussions to be had. ”
Do you really imagine that there is a silent majority actually listening to this discussion on this blog?
There isn’t.
Hello rock digger,
* “It is obvious that you have nothing better to do with your time.”
Yes, rock digger, I enjoy spending my time engaged in arguments with the uneducated members of teabagistan.
* “If my ‘conclusions’ in this ever so highly scientific debate you are perpetuating are wrong- prove it, post some scientific ‘evidence’ which proves me wrong… you cannot”
You seem confused about your place in the Universe, rock digger. You are the anti-science nutjob in the present argument. If science cannot convince you there isn’t any point in me engaging in the effort.
* “ask your mom to fix you a TV dinner so you can continue your diatribe. ”
Poor rock digger … you are trying so hard, aren’t you?
* “If you are really up for a challenge there are some moderately accurate shows on the Science channel and Discovery but watch out for the comercials in between… ”
Um, whatever …
Dylan,
My colleauges at NASA would love to get into this discussion since you are referring to some of their data, however we should probably take this into another more professional forum, it might blow the troll’s mind with the first disussion of physics, chemistry, and geologic time. We should maintain this discussion with the big boys and girls… and not the trolls.
As for your comments regarding my theory and opinion, I believe you are still referring to the micro scale. Even when using core data on the order of 100k years we are still talking percentages of less than one when looking at the overall history of the earth and it’s tectonic, asmospheric, and climatic changes. Let’s be realistic, when you look at the Holocene, and only the Holcene, that is still but a small window of time in the cycles of earth. Fundamentally geologists and atmospheric scientists agree but the waters get muddy when scale becomes a factor, I fear this is where we too must agree to disagree, proxy data or not.
I would be glad to discuss this on a professional level offline with you since you seem to be the only one in the recent posts for this thread that is remotely educated in this topic. I have a colleague that specialzes in paleopollen and paleoclimate, floral impacts, as well as neotectonics. Perhaps that would help you to understand my perspective.
I am still intersted in the Davarza well, ‘let it burn’ is not a bad theory, however those in the area in need of a fuel/energy/heat source might tend to disagree with that conclusion.
I am not intersted in continuing debate for the sake of debate with a troll, very boring at this point, and is beginning to sound like a broken record out of a childs mouth…
too bad more stimulating and educated folks decided not to post. can’t imagine why…
Hello Rock Digger,
* “My colleauges at NASA would love to get into this discussion since you are referring to some of their data, however we should probably take this into another more professional forum, it might blow the troll’s mind with the first disussion of physics, chemistry, and geologic time. ”
Woo hoo … I’m so impressed.
* “As for your comments regarding my theory and opinion, I believe you are still referring to the micro scale. Even when using core data on the order of 100k years we are still talking percentages of less than one when looking at the overall history of the earth and it’s tectonic, asmospheric, and climatic changes. ”
Are all teabaggers as stupid as yourself? You are talking as if all of the above is even relevant.
* “Let’s be realistic, when you look at the Holocene, and only the Holcene, that is still but a small window of time … ”
Imagine this … you visit your doctor and he tells you that you’ve got cancer and you answer, “Well, the Earth is 4.5 billion years old … ”
* “I would be glad to discuss this on a professional level offline with you since you seem to be the only one in the recent posts for this thread that is remotely educated in this topic. ”
You sound like a teabagger not a professional. Did you go to Glenn Beck University?
* “too bad more stimulating and educated folks decided not to post. can’t imagine why… ”
Too bad you aren’t educated.
When we look at the billions of years our universe has existed, there have certainly been times that were different than now. But if you are interested in the eye of an ant, why start your investigation by looking at the mountain it lives on?
Discussions of scale are interesting, but ultimately counterproductive. Unless there is a convenient tectonic explanantion for the present rise in global temperatures (and I didn’t notice any continents shifting in the last 30 years) what would you propose is the forcing agent?
Atmospheric features from millions of years ago are not likely to have any bearing on the atmospheric features of today, and natural climactic change cycles that have been relatively regular and cyclical for almost the last billion years only to change suddenly 100 years ago seems to support the idea that something new is going on today. And it’s not tectonic, and it’s not an asteroid.
Your friend the paleoclimatologist would likely concede that global warming has been occurring for the past 120 years or so (which seems to be about average in that field), and may agree with their colleagues at NOAA (http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globalwarming/end.html) that human activity has contributed at least 50% to that rise.
I’m glad that we agree, but I fail to see what we disagree about.
Dylan,
It seems you too are only interested in debate for the sake of debate. Finite’
I shall go back to true science and professionals.
Enjoy looking at the mountain and the ants as they play follow the leader and feed their fat queen.
Coincidentally, since you are hell bent on looking at the micro, Antarctica is warmer today than parts of North Texas… global warming at it’s finest! Coldest they have seen in almost 40 years…
And yes the continents ARE shifting, mm to inches per year, I would think you should know that if you are an expert on all things related to science…
Don’t spend too much time trying to find ‘facts’ on the internet to quote which you do not fully understand.
Enjoy!
So you propose that tectonic shifts of the last century have a significant role to play in global warming?
If I remember right, the fastest moving plates only manage 7 or 8 cm a year.
I guess there is some possibility of it. Lord knows, the intensity of many a past ice age had much to do with the location and distribution of landmass.
But my you turned from admirer to critic quickly.
Thanks for confusing weather with climate, incidentally (though I know you were being flippant.) There was an interesting chart on the BBC news website the other day, let me see if I can find it… http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/bsp/hi/dhtml_slides/10/cold_weather/img/weather_maps_4.gif there it is! Shows that while north Texas is freezing, in North Africa, Canada, Alaska, the Middle East and various other places, it is actually a lot warmer than normal. Warm spots include Turkmenistan.
@website
No actually I think Door to Hell is far more scary and interesting than your suggestion. And really. Who cares about the ‘religious terminology.’
well after looking at the pictures, then reading the comments, trying to get info, then feeling swamped by some 2 bit tit called David being so self rightous, boring, more than likely a limp wristed fanny fart, bucked tooth, massive erection, I got bored and decided to go outside and do something useful. bye y’all
I really doubt that you could ever do anything useful … but keep on being a bitter sad conservative loser.
I will have you know I invented time, also I can create matter by simply thinking about it.
In 1978 I visited the Fire Temple in Yazd, Iran & there was aphoto on the wall of another Fire Temple in Kazakhstan, a small square building with short round towers on either side with flame spewing out. A sign in English read that the temple was very old, I forgot how old, but I wasn’t believing it since the Zoroastrians in Yazd also claim Zartoshti lived 5000 years ago rather than the usual appr’ly 650 BC. It was way cool!
This has been a great debate. Boatloads of scientific data have been shared by participants such as Dylan and rock digger if one is so inclined to listen to their obviously educated dialogue and visit some of the links they have provided.
For the past several years I have listened to, watched and read about the subject of Global Warming intently. It is blatantly obvious who are promoting the subject for the reason of “personal gain” and who are promoting the “facts” as based upon differing interpretations and opinions of past and current scientific data. The conclusion I have come to respect is that of those who believe the current data neither supports nor denies an absolute value in the role of mankind as a major progenitor in this latest episode of climate change, be it warming or cooling.
I am convinced of this; the earth’s climate has reacted cyclically to any number of influences, be they sun spots, axis tilts, magnetic pole shifts, shifting tectonic plates, land mass drift, asteroid strikes, and volcanic activity for 4.5 billion years and will continue to do so for the next billions of years with or without mankind’s influence.
In geological time, humans have been around less than the width of a pencil line on the scale. If you narrow that down to the last two hundred years since we have actually entered the “pollution mode”, (that = .00000+39 – 4’s as a percentage) one would have to be extremely arrogant to assume that humans have so much power that we could upset the entire balance of the earth’s climate in such a short time all by ourselves. I am not denying that humans contribute, I’m just saying that the amount of actual change that could be attributed directly to human activity would be barely measurable considering all the natural forces that are known to affect the climate.
My personal opinion, which I purpose to foist upon no one, is that humans have about as much influence on global climate change as a leaf floating down the Mississippi River has in determining the course of that river.
And now, here’s the real reason the silent majority has chimed in. It appears to me that “David “, in all his presumptuousness, has become drunk on the kool ade of the antagonizing, mantra chanting, talking points memorizing leftist idealogues. His opinion is not formulated from reasoned thought, nor is it derived from educated study of scientific evidence or serious debate thereof. People like him are nothing more than speed bumps and pot holes on the humanity road and should be treated with the same disdain as a pesky flea. Since his inception into this thread on Dec. 28, he has done nothing more than spew his limited vocabulary of venomous diatribe and added nothing more to the discussion than a fat man in a Speedo adds to a day at the beach.
Ignore the bug and it will eventually seek out another forum where it will attract the confrontational banter it thrives on. It cannot be reasoned with, nor swayed with educated dialog because it does not possess the requsite minimum intelligence necessary to understand the concept. That would be akin to trying to convince your dog to use a toilet and flush after every use. You wouldn’t even attempt to try that.
Why a human would willfully adopt a level of mentality so much more closely aligned with a lower form of life escapes me. We must have pity on them while avoiding acknowledging their presence in our midst lest they become eager as a dog who thinks you may toss it a treat and never go away.
Hello silent majority.
I am certain that those people who you praised can take great comfort in receiving the praise of an ignorant uneducated person. It is obvious that you’ve got science all figured out … like the creationists.
You say:
* “In geological time, humans have been around less than the width of a pencil line on the scale. If you narrow that down to the last two hundred years since we have actually entered the “pollution mode”, (that = .00000+39 – 4’s as a percentage) one would have to be extremely arrogant to assume that humans have so much power that we could upset the entire balance of the earth’s climate in such a short time all by ourselves. ”
Are you really so stupid as to not have noticed all of the massive changes humankind has made to the Earth over the last several centuries? Well … since you evidently are stupid enough to not notice, I encourage you to heed to observations of the scientists since they have actually devoted their careers to this subject and they are actually informed.
* ” I am not denying that humans contribute, I’m just saying that the amount of actual change that could be attributed directly to human activity would be barely measurable considering all the natural forces that are known to affect the climate.:
More scientifically illiterate stupidity. Do you happen to live in a cave and never see the sunlight? You must if you haven’t noticed all of the massive changes humankind has made to the Earth.
* “My personal opinion, which I purpose to foist upon no one, is that humans have about as much influence on global climate change as a leaf floating down the Mississippi River has in determining the course of that river. ”
Your personal opinion doesn’t amount to much considering that you are probably less intelligent than a leaf.
* “And now, here’s the real reason the silent majority has chimed in. It appears to me that “David “, in all his presumptuousness, has become drunk on the kool ade of the antagonizing, mantra chanting, talking points memorizing leftist idealogues. His opinion is not formulated from reasoned thought, nor is it derived from educated study of scientific evidence or serious debate thereof. People like him are nothing more than speed bumps and pot holes on the humanity road and should be treated with the same disdain as a pesky flea. ”
Eh … perhaps you missed the outcome of the last election. Seems like the uneducated teabaggers are a politically irrelevant minority.
* “It cannot be reasoned with, nor swayed with educated dialog because it does not possess the requsite minimum intelligence necessary to understand the concept. That would be akin to trying to convince your dog to use a toilet and flush after every use. You wouldn’t even attempt to try that. ”
Teabaggers talking about intelligence makes about as much sense as Sarah Palin talking about anything.
Hey David, you the man, you the champion. What a fisherman. Every cast got you a bite. Brilliant. Your arm must be permanently stained brown with all the shit-stirring you engaged in.Never read a funnier blog. You are undoubtably the bullshit champion. Congratulations. Keep up the good work. It’s hilarious. Look forward to your next installment.
Hello Brian,
Are you another stupid uneducated scientifically illiterate teabagger? You sound like one. Your standards of entertainment are very low because you’ve wasted so much of your life listening to talk radio rather than educate yourself.
Hey Dave,
Not a teabagger. Probably stupid, uneducated and scientifically illiterate. and as such not competant to comment on worldly matters. I’m only here for the fun as you are a champion bullshit artist and stirrer, like the late Rodney Dangerfield. Very funny. Are you a professional comedian?
After reading a bit of Da— the troll’s inane rantings and some great scientific replies I skipped all the rest.
The crater is being supplied by gas coming from reservoir rock perhaps via a fault. That supply can be (and possibly has been??) tapped with drilling to the formations that hold the gas. All reservoirs are finite and can be depleted. Not enough information is given. It said a rig collapsed. Ususlly a crater that engulfs a rig is caused by and undreground blow out-not contained in the well bore. By far the most dangerous kind. It litterly liquifies the ground aroung the rig and creates the crater. In that respect this is not unique. From what I can gleen from the article there is H2S associated with this gas. H2S is deadly. A 20% concentration in breathed air will kill in less than 2 min. If that was known ignighting the crater was a logical thing to do. The gases Methane and heavier without thr H2S are dangerous. It is heavier than air and can gather in lowlands and litterally ignight explosively from any source of a spark. Ie a car driving through it. This is why all major blowouts (coming up the well bore) are ignighted until they can be controlled. Very few happen today with the prediction of over pressure situations and blowout prevention technology.
I do not know this area geologically but someone does and since the breakup of the USSR these countries are exploiting their natural resouces. I would like to know if this gas is being produced nearby. Underground blow outs can be prevented and the sulfur can be removed from the gas to make it marketable.
In the overall scheme of the planet the gas burned and the CO2 released is miniscule.
Hello GE,
* “After reading a bit of Da— the troll’s inane rantings and some great scientific replies I skipped all the rest. ”
Thank God you appeared. Your insight is greatly appreciated. By someone … or no one.
* “I do not know this area geologically but someone does … ”
Here is a great observation indeed. Certainly you don’t know but someone else does. That’s enough for me.
Hello David,
This is what you sound like,(robotic voice)”Hello…my name is David…you are a stupid, uneducated teabagger…” repeat, indefinitely….
You must be the most miserable, pathetic human alive. You have berated every single person on this thread who has responded to you. You spew crap from your mouth and think it actually has meaning to someone (ANYONE, PLEASE!!!..won’t someone please pay attention to me?…can I please play?) I think Rock digger hit the nail on the head with the “boxer shorts and tv dinner” comment. You certainly are bitter enough.
You name-call like a three year old and then (again like a three year old in a tantrum) refuse to back up anything that comes out of your mouth. You have YET to say ANYTHING that sounds even remotely educated and yet you constantly call everyone else uneducated…I think that is the pot calling the kettle black.
I am VERY much in agreement with whoever said you should pack your bags and GET OUT of AMERICA! You constantly call everyone Anti-this and Anti-that when you have, with your own words, proven that you are probably one of the most anti-American people I have ever come across. You dragged RACE (of all things!!!) into this thread. In my life I have found that the people who try to play the “race card” are the ones with real prejudices anyway.
Just to let you know, I am
1)A Christian
2)a woman (surely ignorant!)
3)A proud American
3)a believer of the “big bang” theory (the Bible doesn’t say HOW God did it, just that he did it)
4)Conservative
5)Very well educated
6)Non-prejudice
7)A Southerner who has never approved of slavery (that was what all that “was all about, right?)
“Conservatives are anti-life, anti-peace, anti-Nature, anti-God and anti-survival”
I am: pro-life (isn’t it the CONSERVATIVES trying to throw out the abortion funding clause in the great “HEALTH CARE BILL”), pro-peace (something you obviously no nothing about…if your an example of a peace-lover I may have to rethink my standing), pro-nature: your comment: “the patriotic teabaggers are showing their love and appreciation to their own country by pissing on the flag with their pollution and destroying America’s future”…what a crock of crap (have you disconnected all of your appliances, thrown out every box of manufactured food, and cut off your electricity or given up your vehicle in order to be more “environmentally friendly”…no, you haven’t; ALL of these things take energy); very-much PRO God and very interested in the survival of my family and myself along with all other humans (with the exception of you). “Your patriotic claim that America is the best doesn’t coincide with America being the Welfare Queen of nations living on money borrowed from communist China. America is a has-been nation with millions of stupid, uneducated, scientifically illiterate patriots claiming to be the best people in the world contrary to all the evidence otherwise.”…a direct quote from you…now WHO’S UnAmerican? BTW, maybe our country would have more money if the liberals weren’t busy giving our tax dollars to every lazy, unproductive couch potato who refuses to give ANYTHING back to the country that they readily suck dry (oh, wait…you’re probably one of THOSE, at least you sure sound like it…constantly complaining about the country who offers the freedom to express yourself…enjoy your welfare check..I worked hard for it).
I am very proud of my country in spite of all of it’s misgivings. No other country has proven themselves any better in my opinion.
BTW…isn’t it the liberals who have belittled our country and mocked it ad nauseum to other countries (think Jane Fonda). I know of no conservative “pissing on the flag”, but Jane might as well have. There’s your friendly “pro-American” liberal for you. (I belive it takes BOTH sides liberal and conservative for this country to be what it is…each keeps the other in check). You can not classify all conservatives as exactly same and then turn around and make some ridiculous comment about race…that put’s you in the prejudice category, my friend). I have no doubt that many conservatives opinions differ from my own, but that’s ok…it’s called an opinion for a reason.
You should take a hint from all of the other people on this post and just tuck your tail between your ignorant legs….(Oh, wait…let me rephrase this so you can understand)…tuck your tail between your STUPID, STUPID, STUPID, UNEDUCATED, UNEDUCATED, UNEDUCATED legs and scamper away.
Hello David,
This is what you sound like,(robotic voice)”Hello…my name is David…you are a stupid, uneducated teabagger…” repeat, indefinitely….
You must be the most miserable, pathetic human alive. You have berated every single person on this thread who has responded to you. You spew crap from your mouth and think it actually has meaning to someone (ANYONE, PLEASE!!!..won’t someone please pay attention to me?…can I please play?) I think Rock digger hit the nail on the head with the “boxer shorts and tv dinner” comment. You certainly are bitter enough.
You name-call like a three year old and then (again like a three year old in a tantrum) refuse to back up anything that comes out of your mouth. You have YET to say ANYTHING that sounds even remotely educated and yet you constantly call everyone else uneducated…I think that is the pot calling the kettle black.
I am VERY much in agreement with whoever said you should pack your bags and GET OUT of AMERICA! You constantly call everyone Anti-this and Anti-that when you have, with your own words, proven that you are probably one of the most anti-American people I have ever come across. You dragged RACE (of all things!!!) into this thread. In my life I have found that the people who try to play the “race card” are the ones with real prejudices anyway.
Just to let you know, I am
1)A Christian
2)a woman (surely ignorant!)
3)A proud American
3)a believer of the “big bang” theory (the Bible doesn’t say HOW God did it, just that he did it)
4)Conservative
5)Very well educated
6)Non-prejudice
7)A Southerner who has never approved of slavery (that was what all that “was all about, right?)
“Conservatives are anti-life, anti-peace, anti-Nature, anti-God and anti-survival”
I am: pro-life (isn’t it the CONSERVATIVES trying to throw out the abortion funding clause in the great “HEALTH CARE BILL”), pro-peace (something you obviously no nothing about…if your an example of a peace-lover I may have to rethink my standing), pro-nature: your comment: “the patriotic teabaggers are showing their love and appreciation to their own country by pissing on the flag with their pollution and destroying America’s future”…what a crock of crap (have you disconnected all of your appliances, thrown out every box of manufactured food, and cut off your electricity or given up your vehicle in order to be more “environmentally friendly”…no, you haven’t; ALL of these things take energy); very-much PRO God and very interested in the survival of my family and myself along with all other humans (with the exception of you). “Your patriotic claim that America is the best doesn’t coincide with America being the Welfare Queen of nations living on money borrowed from communist China. America is a has-been nation with millions of stupid, uneducated, scientifically illiterate patriots claiming to be the best people in the world contrary to all the evidence otherwise.”…a direct quote from you…now WHO’S UnAmerican? BTW, maybe our country would have more money if the liberals weren’t busy giving our tax dollars to every lazy, unproductive couch potato who refuses to give ANYTHING back to the country that they readily suck dry (oh, wait…you’re probably one of THOSE, at least you sure sound like it…constantly complaining about the country who offers the freedom to express yourself…enjoy your welfare check..I worked hard for it).
I am very proud of my country in spite of all of it’s misgivings. No other country has proven themselves any better in my opinion.
BTW…isn’t it the liberals who have belittled our country and mocked it ad nauseum to other countries (think Jane Fonda). I know of no conservative “pissing on the flag”, but Jane might as well have. There’s your friendly “pro-American” liberal for you. (I belive it takes BOTH sides liberal and conservative for this country to be what it is…each keeps the other in check). You can not classify all conservatives as exactly same and then turn around and make some ridiculous comment about race…that put’s you in the prejudice category, my friend). I have no doubt that many conservatives opinions differ from my own, but that’s ok…it’s called an opinion for a reason.
You should take a hint from all of the other people on this post and just tuck your tail between your ignorant legs….(Oh, wait…let me rephrase this so you can understand)…tuck your tail between your STUPID, UNEDUCATED legs and scamper away.
BTW, my chipper little friend, before you belittle every possible person for their misspelled words and grammatical errors, you should check your own.
And to all the other people above, I’ll pitch in for the plane ticket, too!!!!! But David’s too chicken to leave the safety of our freedom-abounding country…he’d be squashed like the pathetic little bug he really is.
Enjoy your TV dinner, David. Tell your Mom I said “Hi” and that it’s time for new boxer shorts, the current ones seem to be full of shit.
Hello “David Reallt Sucks!!”,
If you really are a Christian, poor Jesus …
Jesus has a bunch of hate-filled teabaggers as his followers. Why did he even bother? Christianity is blasphemed by the Christians.
Are you a patriot? God help America! Is it any wonder that America’s fortunes are declining like a falling brick when her most loyal patriots are uneducated stupid idiots who confuse pissing on the flag with true patriotism?
Jesus doesn’t love you. To hell you shall go!
silent majority,
I didn’t get back to you straight away. In the meantime, there’s been another minor flame war, so I forgive you if you’ve lost interest and wandered away.
There are plenty of theories about forcing triggers for climate change, many of which have been proven consistent (as far as they can be without the benefit of a world in a test tube and infinite time in a lab.)
What differentiates our present situation is that there is no external forcing trigger for the current phase of global warming.
If there have been no “sun spots, axis tilts, magnetic pole shifts, shifting tectonic plates, land mass drift, asteroid strikes, and volcanic activity” recently, then why is the climate changing?
The answer appears to be that the change is largely brought about by human activity. That’s currently the most strongly supported theory. Is there an alternative?
There’s a river near my house that floods from time to time. The 100 year flood level is not too far from the end of my yard. We know that when it rains a lot up river in the catchment, that the river swells and occasionally floods. We can predict the flood by observing the natural and cyclical rainfall patterns to our west.
There are plans afoot to dam our river. When the wall goes up, and the water rises, suddenly all my previous observations of weather and pattern are moot. Human-initiated change comes to my river, and it floods all the time.
The arguments of climate change contrarians sound like someone standing on the dam wall and shouting that there will be no flood, or that the floods will be no worse, because there has been no change in the rain. All the time the sluice gates draw closed.
Sorry to get all metaphoric on y’all. Don’t know what came over me.
Hi Dylan,
As the funny bullshit artist stirrer man appears to be asleep at present, but (hopefully) has left his still baited line in the water, here’s one he can reel in when he awakes:
Came across this article in the daily paper, so we know it is true. (I can only pass on other peoples theories as i am not competant to comment on worldly matters, right David?).
CLIMATE THEORY CATCHES COLD
Europe’s big freeze is the start of a worldwide trend towards colder weather that challenges global warming theories, some scientists argued yesterday.
The world has entered a “cold mode” that is likely to bring a global dip in temperatures, which will last for 20 to 30 years, they say.
The predictions are based on an analysis of natural cycles in water temperatures in the Pacific and Atlantic oceans. Some experts believe these cycles – and not human pollution – can explain all the major changes in world temperatures in the 20th century.
The research has been carried out by climate scientists including Prof Mojib Latif, a leading member of the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.
No idea what all the above has to do with the Door-to-hell gas crater, but hopefully will inspire David to greater heights. (He can be Hilarious).
That is a nice hole. Really could do without the political/religious/state of the union – world personal extrapolation. But since it is here I will add my bit.
Yes we could all use a macroeconomics refresher to see how we got to the this point since
WWII. Make laws for the people not for Congress. KBO Kick the Bastards Out with term limits.
However after reading this I must ask David some questions too.
Can you try cutting back on the Brawndo? I know its got electrolytes for plants like you that we turn into posts but the caffeine is kicking in to much.
David how old are you?
How many blogs and forum threads do you ruin each day?
You seem to enjoy using that word so much that you must enjoy its double entendre. Is it
that you actually enjoy placing or having someones scrotum placed in your mouth or on
your face or head?
Are you gay or into BSDM?
Or is this something you picked up in online gaming?, and if so do you own any real guns?
You are obviously out of your tree. I doubt you will understand what that means. Have you
considered living in a tent? Good luck finding one that doesn’t increase your carbon footprint. Joining the homeless tent city? Bummer no Internet there. You’d be doing your part though by not posting pointless trollfests wasting storage on servers all over the net on massive server farms storing your highly educated posts for eternity powered by coalfired gasfired powerplants and hydroelectric fish blocking dams.
If your so educated tell me where you were educated and what degrees are you seeking or have you acheived? My bet is you are a highschool punk and perhaps even younger as you seem to act about age 14. Perhaps its the Brawndo.
What do you want to do for a living? Be a plumber? Electrician? Carpenter? No those must
be to low of a job for you to do cause you’re so educated. Besides you don’t need them if your living outside using portable toilets. Maybe you can be the honeybucket man? Seriously think about it next time you turn on a light or a faucet or use a toilet or plug your computer in.
You will have to pay bills at some point for things like trolling forums and blogs on the
Internet all day long. Though Gollum having a job would cut into your precious.
What is your plan for housing yourself? Government subsidized housing? Are you going to
sell crack for a living? Let us support you in jail?
You think you have all the answers yet its obvious you don’t have a clue. What really is bugging you? Couldn’t afford a plane ticket to Copenhagen to protest, or the carbon release flying there? Or problems with getting an entry visa/ passport?
You should live in a European country for a while and see how you like it. Try a socialist
one like Sweden where you can pay 70% or your income tax. Oh right you don’t have a
job or house so taxes don’t matter to you. Try being an entrepreneur and starting a business there. Hell you are lucky to live in a country that doesn’t press you into service for 2 years like most European countries. They don’t like some of the people they have absorbed either so they may not like you either.
Take a class in public speaking/writing please because you totally suck at it. Theres so
much hate in your posts its obvious you are not happy with where you are at in life so please own your own problem and do something about it. Make your own life better. It takes effort but really please work at it. We need your help to fix both the USA’s and the global problems and starting with yourself is the best thing you can do. Please take this seriously as life is not here for you to be angry and hate.
Brian,
Suggest you return to the source on that one. Here’s a good commentary on the misrepresentation of Mojib Latif’s work in the press (which they are again jumping on, it seems.): http://thingsbreak.wordpress.com/2009/09/11/of-moles-and-whacking-mojib-latif-predicted-two-decades-of-cooling/
As I mentioned above in a previous response, all this media focus on cold weather is at the expense of other parts of the globe that are substantially warmer than normal too. But nobody cares about those bits!
Dylan,
Any report from anyone associated with the IPCC, in any capacity, should be considered somewhat suss, newspaper reported or not. Misrepresentation appears their forte. (IPCC and newspapers both).
And somebody does care about those other bits of the globe. We who live there for starters.
Well, I’ll give Latif the benefit of the doubt. He did say “If my name was not Mojib Latif, my name would be global warming. So I really believe in Global Warming. Okay. However, you know, we have to accept that there are these natural fluctuations, and therefore, the temperature may not show additional warming temporarily.”
(from http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120668812&ft=1&f=1007 via http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mojib_Latif)
Hello Brian,
* “Came across this article in the daily paper, so we know it is true. (I can only pass on other peoples theories as i am not competant to comment on worldly matters, right David?). ”
Evidently you are not competent to comment on any matter which requires a sand grain’s worth of knowledge.
* “CLIMATE THEORY CATCHES COLD
Europe’s big freeze is the start of a worldwide trend towards colder weather that challenges global warming theories, some scientists argued yesterday.
The world has entered a “cold mode” that is likely to bring a global dip in temperatures, which will last for 20 to 30 years, they say. ”
Conservatives are so gullible it is really pathetic. Conservatives have blind faith in the computer models of kooks and yet reject outright the conclusions of science. This is a sign of desperation and intellectual dishonesty such as is common exhibited by creationists.
* “The predictions are based on an analysis of natural cycles in water temperatures in the Pacific and Atlantic oceans. Some experts believe these cycles – and not human pollution – can explain all the major changes in world temperatures in the 20th century. ”
This is a lie, plain and simply, written for the sake of scientifically illiterate conservative dupes.
Then Brian ends with this gem of conservative stupidity …
* “Any report from anyone associated with the IPCC, in any capacity, should be considered somewhat suss, newspaper reported or not. Misrepresentation appears their forte. (IPCC and newspapers both). ”
Like the creationists, the pro-pollution conservatives outright deny all of science on behalf of their political cause. They would rather close their eyes and ears rather than suffer an encounter with reality contrary to their own personal preferences.
It is impossible to engage in a scientific argument with those who reject science. The conservatives have chosen to live with a 18th century anti-science mindset.
Hello Geophysicist,
Reading through your inchorent babble suggests to me that you are not a geophysicist since it is quite obvious that you are not educated.
Poor bitter conservative nobody … keep on crying. Conservatives are sad and angry all of the time, otherwise they wouldn’t have any reason to be conservative.
Go listen to Rush Limbaugh or watch Glenn Beck, those two are more suitable to an intellect of your low wattage.
Is there any such thing as an educated conservative? Educated conservatives must have gone extinct.
Hello Mr bullshit stirrer man,
If my little “gem” caused you such apoplexy, I dread what directing you to the following website will do. Suggest you have mica paramedics on standby before you open it. I think I feel guilty already for alerting you to it.
http://www.heartland.org/article/26397/Climate_Science_Corrupted.html
You know, I thought someone on this thread may be able to get David to actually say something other than “stupid, uneducated, teabagger, conservative”, but, alas, we all have failed. I think it is because he doesn’t have anything else TO say. He has NOT ONCE given any information that is even remotely interesting/informative. He side steps all questions directed at him with his monotonous name-calling; he can’t even come up with original words!! He calls everyone else stupid and uneducated, then provides no insight as to the level of education he has attained, which is likely his GED at best. His massive overuse of the above mentioned words is definitely indicative of his limited vocabulary. He is a bitter, lonely man who can only get his jollies by trying to get a rise out of other people online, probably because he has no one else to converse with as you can just about imagine that would be as fun as bashing your hand repeatedly with a hammer. I do feel as if he probably lives in a basement, because if he every ventured out, someone would surely put him out of his (our) misery. I suggest that no one even respond to him; he is a cyber-bully..that’s all. Nothing special.
He can’t even make up his mind as to his own beliefs. He bashes “creationists” then actually has the audacity to talk about God and list scriptures!!!! WHAT!!! Pick a side and stick with it.
P.S. I love science and I love God. I can’t imagine anyone studying the limitlessly fascinating world of science and NOT believe in God. He has provided us with more mysteries than we will ever be able to solve.
Hello Brian,
* “If my little “gem” caused you such apoplexy, I dread what directing you to the following website will do. Suggest you have mica paramedics on standby before you open it. I think I feel guilty already for alerting you to it. ”
If you are stupid enough to believe anything the Heartland Institute says you are very stupid indeed!
Hello “David Really Sucks”,
* “P.S. I love science and I love God. I can’t imagine anyone studying the limitlessly fascinating world of science and NOT believe in God. He has provided us with more mysteries than we will ever be able to solve. ”
God suffers from the idiocy of his followers. Pity poor Jesus having to spend eternity with the teabaggers … hope that there aren’t any non-white people in Heaven or it is going to be one very unhappy place for the conservatives!
Glad you’re back Dylan. I’d like to question whether or not there is an external forcing trigger. It would be an easy assumption to presume a certain specific set of criteria is factual then jump to the most “logical” conclusion that would support ones desired outcome. It happens all the time with surveys and research. As quoted by Criminologist Gary Kleck in an article on gun control–“research designed to arrive at an ideologically predetermined conclusion”. As scientific as any research can get, the conclusion can always be made to fit a predetermined outcome and appear to be supported by “facts”.
I’m not trying to impugn ALL research or researchers… I’m just saying that outcomes presented as factual must be carefully scrutinized to make sure there is no hidden agenda which might be the driving force behind the research in the first place. And then there is the credibility of the researchers’ to consider. For instance, I would not put Al Gore, GE, or extreme leftists who have obvious agendas of personal enrichment in the same category as say NASA or NOAA. Maybe not a perfect comparison but I think you get my point. Each group would choose only criteria that would support their own desired outcomes. And then there’s the East Anglia e-mail scandal which didn’t do much good for the credibility of the entire subject of global warming. And let’s not forget the UN’s agenda of redistributing gobs of trillions from rich polluting countries to third world countries (“to make it fair”) who would inevitably steal and squander their windfall. Now back to External Forcing Triggers for a moment. Two that I can think of that get very little publicity are spewing massive amounts of greenhouse gasses 24/7/365. First, lets not forget the 25,000 mile fault line commonly referred to as the “Ring of Fire” with thousands of volcanoes in a constant state of eruption. Since they are covered by miles of deep ocean and there is absolutely no technology available to monitor their output, how does one gauge their influence on climate change? It would be ridiculous to assume that their output doesn’t nor hasn’t varied for eons!
A couple of weeks ago there was a video clip on cable news of one of these spewing volcanoes taken by somebody’s deep sea submersible but it got yanked rather quickly. Then there’s the deep sea Methane fields bubbling gas daily. Some is locked in frozen “pillows” on the sea floor and some gets released into the atmosphere. Again, no way to monitor nor gauge it’s effect on GW either. Although it has been presented as theory that it may have been responsible for bringing planes and ships down in the Bermuda Triangle! (I think that theory got debunked on Mythbusters) Are we also to assume that this output is constant thereby it is a non factor in the GW argument? I’m just saying Dylan that there are so many variables, who’s to say there has to be one or two that become the triggers? Maybe it’s very minute changes too small to think important in many variables at the same time! Maybe we don’t even know all the variables yet. Do you remember when the world was flat? Or, “man’s not supposed to go that fast”, or “It’ll never fly”, etc. etc. It wasn’t that long ago. For me, the jury’s not in on global warming yet. I believe the subject has merit… but we don’t have all the data, and were not gonna get all the data. We’re only gonna get the data we’re allowed to have because this argument has been hijacked by a group of Global Elitists and turned into the biggest scam ever perpetrated on mankind.
Global Warming along with Cap and Trade, Universal Healthcare, Solar and Wind Power and bans on tapping our own oil and coal reserves are all part of a much larger plan to plunder the wealth of the rich industrious nations in the name of “saving the planet”. Although Global Warming has some merit, it is miniscule compared to what we are allowing to happen to us. We are being led like sheep, on skewed data, with blinders on towards a conclusion that none of us will like, especially our children and grandchildren. We are allowing ourselves to be taxed into poverty and ruled by the elites in an overgrown government who will live lavishly while “the people” will be expected to live in 15th century squalor. It has happened many times before on this planet and now it’s about to happen again, to the greatest society ever evolved in history. Let’s make sure before it gets crammed down our throats prematurely that the data is complete, that it hasn’t been altered or otherwise skewed, and we aren’t just being sold a bill of goods. Let’s check the agendas of the proponents and make sure there’s nothing hidden. And finally, there is a reason that public confidence is at 15% toward the print media and many are going bankrupt. We’ve been lied to before. Are we being lied to now?
Hi David old son,
Glad you are OK. Bit disappointed in your responses though, given the lead-in info/ammo you were provided. Funny, but not hilarious, not your best work. See if you can do better with the following link. (You do write your own gags, don’t you?)
http://d4072.mysite.westnethosting.com.au/climate/Climate&Carbon.pdf
By the way, do you have a video of your routine you can post on utube?
put a stupid straw in it and suck the good stuff out and use the buring energy thats allready happening some people need a clue
silent,
The ring of fire theory has been considered but observation and theory don’t match. If the outgassings of volcanos were responsible for increses in CO2, then the contemporary record would show spikes and troughs in the record, not to mention peaks in atmospheric CO2 closer to the source. (You can’t put sensors on the volcanos, but you can monitor the atmosphere above them.) Neither of these expected observations occur. Instead, we have a slow and steady rise in global atmospheric concentrations of CO2 with no spikes except for a fixed seasonal rhythm. I don’t think volcanos erupt more in April every single year! (http://www.globalwarmingart.com/wiki/Carbon_Dioxide_Gallery)
New research on Methane venting in the Arctic is almost ready for publication, but early info is not encouraging (see http://climatechangepsychology.blogspot.com/2010/01/bbc-igor-semiletov-methane-release-from.html) Methane is a powerful greenhouse gas, and by allowing our climate to be artificially warmed by our excess release of CO2, it seems we may have accelerated the natural release of Methane into the atmosphere. That’s a shame, because over the last 8 years or so, Methane levels in the atmosphere have been pretty static (thought to be partly due to the eradication of natural wetland areas, which previously contributed methane to the atmosphere.) Now they are on the march again (http://www.csiro.au/news/GlobalMethaneRising.html) and I agree that Methane has a part to play in climate change.
When you question whether there is an external forcing trigger at all, you are questioning whether there is any global climate change at all. This would fly in the face of most research. Even most contrarians these days accept that change is happening, they just don’t agree that any of it is human initiated.
I don’t think you will find me presenting anything here as factual. However, you show both a grasp of scientific method, and simultanous disdain for same method.
When trying to determine what a forcing trigger might be, a scientist will make an educated guess about what the trigger could be, and then determine what evidence would be required to support or deny that theory. Then they will comb the body of evidence that already exists, and perhaps gather some of their own, to support or deny the theory. Finally, once the theory and its evidence is published, the entire scientific community will have the ability to take a crack at the job too. There isn’t much room for fabrication of evidence in this scenario (not to say that it doesn’t happen, but it is usually detected.)
And believe it or not, the theories are revised all the time. Initial estimates of the impact on the environment of CO2 were inaccurate and have been greatly refined since they were first expressed in the late 1800s.
There seems to be a lot of angst about the prospect of climate change somehow thrusting civilization back to the dark ages (whilst privaleged elites sit back laughing at our foolishness.) Perhaps this derives from a feeling that to do anything about the issue is too hard on an individual level (see all the comments about becoming a vegan neo-hippie above directed at David.) But there are concrete steps that you can take relatively easily, and that are also good for your economy. “Buy Local” is a strong campaign that runs in our area. Solar power is well supported in my community too, I have solar panels on my roof, and so do most of my neighbours, and they make excellent economic sense for us. These are incremental changes that are being made piece by piece. It is not (yet) necessary for us to shed our clothes and retreat to caves in order to survive, but to resist incremental change is ultimately going to be as counterproductive.
Hello Brian,
* “Glad you are OK. Bit disappointed in your responses though, given the lead-in info/ammo you were provided. Funny, but not hilarious, not your best work. See if you can do better with the following link. (You do write your own gags, don’t you?) ”
Brian, Brian, Brian … you are trying so very hard and all your efforts are in vain. You are on the anti-science notjob side of this argument and it is easy to find websites spouting all sorts of anti-science nonsense by scientific sounding idiots with an agenda, see for example:
http://www.icr.org/
So your ability to produce a link to a document on the internet is about as impressive as, well, nothing … because any nutjob can write whatever they wish on the internet and there are millions of uneducated people — such as yourself — who are gullible enough to believe it.
Yet you cannot trust the conclusions of science. Conservatives sure are silly!
Brian,
This “article” (editorial, really, and unpublished as well) manages to cram a lot of climate skeptic myth into one piece. I’m impressed.
Canards about water vapour, the small role of humans, interstellar dust, and so on, are entertaining, but there is so much research around to debunk this kind of thinking that it’s hardly worth bothering. Nevertheless, if you want an education in contrarian argument, take a look at it.
The most compelling assertion that Vikingur makes is that Carbon Dioxide by itself cannot be responsible for all of global warming (because it is physically impossible.)
I don’t think anyone has argued that, and current research indicates that CO2 is responsible for between 9 and 30 percent of warming. But it is a significant agent (the single most significant gas), and one which we humans are largely repsonsible for vastly increasing atmospheric concentrations of, and potentially have a great degree of control over.
Are there any other arguments Einar makes that you particularly admire? If you could give me a specific, it would save me a lot of time running around debunking the stuff that you already know about.
Hello silent majorty,
* “Global Warming along with Cap and Trade, Universal Healthcare, Solar and Wind Power and bans on tapping our own oil and coal reserves are all part of a much larger plan to plunder the wealth of the rich industrious nations in the name of “saving the planet” ”
The United States of America is in debt to the tune of $12 trillion and rising fast and there is also the small matter of trillions of unfunded liabilities …
So what the hell wealth are you trying to protect?
The United States isn’t a rich nation, it is a bankrupt insolvent nation. Don’t blame the climatologists for this unfortunate status … blame the American people who foolishly squandering their wealth on a binge of hyperconsumerism and morbidly obese living.
At the present moment you continue to exist in your present standard of living because of the welfare provided by China, the oil producing nations and the impoverished people of the Third World.
So there is no wealth left to plunder. You can stop clinging to your dollar bills because they will soon become worthless.
Dylan,
Learned people aplenty on both sides of the great debate profess to know the answers. I don’t know the answers, and I don’t think in our lifetime, or mine anyway, that we will really know. Meantime I am happy to risk being the messenger who gets shot and share any texts that come my way.
“From the comments it is evident that Americans rank among the stupidest and most scientifically illiterate people on the planet. Don’t worry, I won’t waste my time attempting to educate you. An education would be lost on you people. Best to leave the stupid to their talk radio and fox news. Delusions never die.” Dude david so much for not wasting your precious time educating us “stupid, ignorant america’s?!” From what all I read of ur absolutely ridiculous comments trying to make urself look smarter then a 5th grader, I’m going to have to say go home if u don’t like americans! And teabaggers wow good one smart scientist. Wtf kind of name is that? And while ur on here replying to my comment to ur dumb ass…. u can shove that 9 inch dildo u got hidden in ur dresser as far up ur ass as possible! One more thing mind mastibatur…. U remind of hitler using such “powerful” words that it excites u enough to have an orgasm in your pants! Deuces 😉
One word… SMORES!!!!
I don’t mean to interrupt anyone but, david, I’d like to know why it is that you seem to assume, that all American people are the same. I’m slightly offended that you would unabashedly claim that I’m a conservative teabagger that lives in the south.
I mean no offense to anyone of course.
Brian et al,
This thread seems to have reached a critical mass. I doubt there will be anything worth reading from here on in (I’m sure many of you have long since reached that conclusion.) I think I’ve addressed all the issues I’ve seen raised, so bid you all adieu, and hope to see you on another thread some day.
Hello Dylan
See Americans are the stupidest people in the world I see you are weak and I am smarter than you so I will win as I am the smartest in the world. I am also the best assucker in the world.
please beat my ass I enjoy it and no doubt deserve it cause my name is David and you are uneducated